Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 12490 From: Marrocco, Sam Date: 11/5/2015
Subject: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
I've had to do a complete reinstall of Windows 10 (for reasons beyond
the scope of this thread) and it gave me a perfect opportunity to test a
clean install.

-I did a new install of KMotion433q
-I then rebooted Windows 10 into the "disabled signature checking" mode
that allows installation of unsigned drivers.
-I installed the drivers, both KFLOP.info and KMotion.inf, by right
clicking on them and selecting "install". A dialog appeared suggesting
success.

I am able to run KMotion and get a version string back and all apps
appear to run fine.
However, after a reboot into the same user, but without "disabled
signature checking" on, Kmotion and other apps claim "cannot connect to
board #0".

-If I reboot back into "disabled signature checking" mode, the board is
found and runs fine. In device manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion
Controller 4.XX appears normal.
-If I reboot back into normal mode, the board cannot be found. In device
manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX has a small
Yield/Exclamation mark on it.

I have verified that the ftd2xx.dll is present in the system32 directory.

Is Windows 10 now prohibiting the use of unsigned drivers during normal
operations as well as making their installation difficult?


sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com

<http://ringsidecreative.com/>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12491 From: TK Date: 11/5/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
Hi Sam,

You are installing the Driver in a different manner than normal by double clicking the KFLOP.inf file.

Please try this method to see if it makes any difference:

#1 disable driver signing
#2 Plug in KFLOP to get the "New Hardware Found"
(or if KFLOP is already present in Device Manager - right click and "Update Driver"
#3 Select "have disk", etc and navigate to the USB Driver directory
#4 verify it is working
#5 reboot (without driver signing)
#6 test


Regards
TK

On 11/5/2015 2:27 PM, 'Marrocco, Sam' SMarrocco@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

I've had to do a complete reinstall of Windows 10 (for reasons beyond
the scope of this thread) and it gave me a perfect opportunity to test a
clean install.

-I did a new install of KMotion433q
-I then rebooted Windows 10 into the "disabled signature checking" mode
that allows installation of unsigned drivers.
-I installed the drivers, both KFLOP.info and KMotion.inf, by right
clicking on them and selecting "install". A dialog appeared suggesting
success.

I am able to run KMotion and get a version string back and all apps
appear to run fine.
However, after a reboot into the same user, but without "disabled
signature checking" on, Kmotion and other apps claim "cannot connect to
board #0".

-If I reboot back into "disabled signature checking" mode, the board is
found and runs fine. In device manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion
Controller 4.XX appears normal.
-If I reboot back into normal mode, the board cannot be found. In device
manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX has a small
Yield/Exclamation mark on it.

I have verified that the ftd2xx.dll is present in the system32 directory.

Is Windows 10 now prohibiting the use of unsigned drivers during normal
operations as well as making their installation difficult?

sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com

<http://ringsidecreative.com/>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12497 From: Sam Marrocco Date: 11/7/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
On 11/5/2015 5:27 PM, 'Marrocco, Sam' SMarrocco@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

I've had to do a complete reinstall of Windows 10 (for reasons beyond
the scope of this thread) and it gave me a perfect opportunity to test a
clean install.

-I did a new install of KMotion433q
-I then rebooted Windows 10 into the "disabled signature checking" mode
that allows installation of unsigned drivers.
-I installed the drivers, both KFLOP.info and KMotion.inf, by right
clicking on them and selecting "install". A dialog appeared suggesting
success.

I am able to run KMotion and get a version string back and all apps
appear to run fine.
However, after a reboot into the same user, but without "disabled
signature checking" on, Kmotion and other apps claim "cannot connect to
board #0".

-If I reboot back into "disabled signature checking" mode, the board is
found and runs fine. In device manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion
Controller 4.XX appears normal.
-If I reboot back into normal mode, the board cannot be found. In device
manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX has a small
Yield/Exclamation mark on it.

I have verified that the ftd2xx.dll is present in the system32 directory.

Is Windows 10 now prohibiting the use of unsigned drivers during normal
operations as well as making their installation difficult?


Is there a possibility of signed drivers for the kflop/kmotion?
-->
sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12498 From: TK Date: 11/7/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
Hi Scott,

Did the procedure I asked you to try allow the driver to be loaded without disabling signature checking?

Signed drivers are certainly possible.  How much extra would you be willing to pay for them?

Regards
TK


On 11/7/2015 7:35 AM, Sam Marrocco SMarrocco@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

On 11/5/2015 5:27 PM, 'Marrocco, Sam' SMarrocco@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

I've had to do a complete reinstall of Windows 10 (for reasons beyond
the scope of this thread) and it gave me a perfect opportunity to test a
clean install.

-I did a new install of KMotion433q
-I then rebooted Windows 10 into the "disabled signature checking" mode
that allows installation of unsigned drivers.
-I installed the drivers, both KFLOP.info and KMotion.inf, by right
clicking on them and selecting "install". A dialog appeared suggesting
success.

I am able to run KMotion and get a version string back and all apps
appear to run fine.
However, after a reboot into the same user, but without "disabled
signature checking" on, Kmotion and other apps claim "cannot connect to
board #0".

-If I reboot back into "disabled signature checking" mode, the board is
found and runs fine. In device manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion
Controller 4.XX appears normal.
-If I reboot back into normal mode, the board cannot be found. In device
manager the USB controller KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX has a small
Yield/Exclamation mark on it.

I have verified that the ftd2xx.dll is present in the system32 directory.

Is Windows 10 now prohibiting the use of unsigned drivers during normal
operations as well as making their installation difficult?


Is there a possibility of signed drivers for the kflop/kmotion?

sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com

Group: DynoMotion Message: 12500 From: Sam Marrocco Date: 11/7/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
On 11/7/2015 8:52 PM, TK tk@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

Hi Scott,

Did the procedure I asked you to try allow the driver to be loaded without disabling signature checking?


It did. All seemed well, then (for non kflop reasons) I was forced to reinstall Windows 10 with current updates ( a few months worth). Since that reinstall the driver appears to only work when I'm signed in with signature checking disabled. I'm wondering if this is a new 'feature' of a recent windows 10 update. Anytime I am logged in normally (without signature checking enabled) the kflop driver indicates an exclamation point on it's icon.

Not having written any drivers before, I assume you're asking because the process involves a fee on your end to have a driver "signatured"? I also wonder if this will be standard in the future and all drivers will need to be signed. I would hope not.


sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12501 From: TK Date: 11/7/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
Hi Sam,

It certainly would be unacceptable to always require booting with driver signature disabled.

But I asked you to perform a procedure since you did a fresh install of W10 with all updates.  I can't tell if you read or tried the procedure to install the drivers how we normally do.  Please clearly indicate if you have or not and what happened.

Actually you might also need to uninstall the driver.  Then boot with signature checking disabled.  Then power KFLOP.  Then Install the driver in response to New Hardware found.

Regards
TK






On 11/7/2015 6:08 PM, Sam Marrocco SMarrocco@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

On 11/7/2015 8:52 PM, TK tk@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

Hi Scott,

Did the procedure I asked you to try allow the driver to be loaded without disabling signature checking?


It did. All seemed well, then (for non kflop reasons) I was forced to reinstall Windows 10 with current updates ( a few months worth). Since that reinstall the driver appears to only work when I'm signed in with signature checking disabled. I'm wondering if this is a new 'feature' of a recent windows 10 update. Anytime I am logged in normally (without signature checking enabled) the kflop driver indicates an exclamation point on it's icon.

Not having written any drivers before, I assume you're asking because the process involves a fee on your end to have a driver "signatured"? I also wonder if this will be standard in the future and all drivers will need to be signed. I would hope not.


sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com

Group: DynoMotion Message: 12503 From: Marrocco, Sam Date: 11/9/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?


On 11/7/2015 9:25 PM, TK tk@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

Hi Sam,

It certainly would be unacceptable to always require booting with driver signature disabled.

But I asked you to perform a procedure since you did a fresh install of W10 with all updates.  I can't tell if you read or tried the procedure to install the drivers how we normally do.  Please clearly indicate if you have or not and what happened.

Actually you might also need to uninstall the driver.  Then boot with signature checking disabled.  Then power KFLOP.  Then Install the driver in response to New Hardware found.


I think you may be mixing the instructions you gave me in another email thread (from before I clean reinstalled Windows 10) and this thread (after I clean reinstalled windows 10). To clarify, here is what I have done:

-I booted into "Signature Checking Disabled" mode. UAC is at it's most minimum setting. It cannot be fully disabled in Windows 10 without serious issues.
-I uninstalled the KFLOP driver in the Device manager by right-clicking Uninstall on the KFLOP-Motion Controller 4.xx icon. After accepting the warning dialog, it vanishes.
-I then deleted the ftd2xx.dll (for the heck of it) from the system32 folder.
-I uninstalled the KMotion 433q package in Control Panels, Programs & Features.
-I turned the KFLOP off and rebooted normally.

At this point my machine should be free of everything KFlop-related.

-I then rebooted into "Signature Checking Disabled" mode.
-I powered up the KFlop. There is no "New Hardware Found" dialog; nothing appears on screen. There is a "ding" sound, so it was found.
-After a moment, the "KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX" icon appears in the Universal Serial Bus Controllers section of the Device Manager. The icon is normal. There is *no* ftd2xx dll in the system32 folder. I ran my app, and it runs fine, controlling the KFlop normally. At this point I have NOT unstalled the KMotion 433q package.
-Now I install the KFlop 433q package (deselecting the Mach3 Plugin). It installs without error. I test ran the Dynomotion.net, KMotionCNC and KMotion apps without incident.

I'm guessing at this point that the similarity with the previous (before installing Windows 10 from scratch) incident is that the ftd driver is still failing to install into system32.

-So, I did a manual install of the KFLOP.inf file in the c:\KMotion433q by right-clicking the icon and selecting Install. A dialog appears saying that installation was successful. The ftd2xx.dll now appears in the System32 folder.
-I did a manual install of the KMotion.inf file in the same manner. A dialog appears saying that installation was successful.
-I again tested Dynomotion, KMotionCNC and my app. All continue to function normally.
-I powered down the KFlop.

I then rebooted normally.

-After login, I powered up the KFlop. The "KFlop - Motion Controller 4.xx" icon appears in the Device Manager, but now it has a yellow exclamation point triangle over the icon. The ftd2xx.dll is still present in the system32 folder. Attempting to run KMotion's Console/Version command returns "Can't Connect to KMotion Board #0".

I reboot back into "Signature Checking Disabled" mode.

-All KMotion apps and my app run normally.

I reboot normally.

-KMotion version returns "Can't Connect to KMotion Board #0".


Am I missing a possible installation step anywhere that could cause this issue?


sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12504 From: TK Date: 11/9/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
Hi Sam,

The post I'm referring to is here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/messages/12491

Here are some comments regarding your procedures (I could be wrong in some cases):

#1 The Application and the Driver are two different things.  Uninstalling/Installing the PC Application has nothing to do with the USB Driver so only causes confusion

#2 Where you say your machine is free of everything KFLOP related is probably incorrect.  Plugging in the board caused a "ding" and the driver was loaded and shown in the Device Manager

#3 Do not load the driver for the KMotion board (KMotion.inf) as you do not have a KMotion board you have a KFLOP board

#4 The ftd2xx.dll is not part of the driver.  It is a Library used to communicate with the driver.  Deleting it will have no effect on how the driver loads so only causes confusion


You keep clicking on the KFLOP.inf file thinking this loads the driver.  I'm not sure exactly what that does.  I think it just puts things in the Windows directory and makes registry entries so that he driver files can be found if needed.  Do not do this.

So what I've been asking you to do is after booting without driver signing enforcement go to the Device manager, uninstall the driver, then Update the driver (using Device manager - right click - update driver)

I'm not sure why that would make a difference but that is how we normally do it so please give it a try.

Regards
TK



On 11/9/2015 11:19 AM, 'Marrocco, Sam' SMarrocco@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 



On 11/7/2015 9:25 PM, TK tk@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 

Hi Sam,

It certainly would be unacceptable to always require booting with driver signature disabled.

But I asked you to perform a procedure since you did a fresh install of W10 with all updates.  I can't tell if you read or tried the procedure to install the drivers how we normally do.  Please clearly indicate if you have or not and what happened.

Actually you might also need to uninstall the driver.  Then boot with signature checking disabled.  Then power KFLOP.  Then Install the driver in response to New Hardware found.


I think you may be mixing the instructions you gave me in another email thread (from before I clean reinstalled Windows 10) and this thread (after I clean reinstalled windows 10). To clarify, here is what I have done:

-I booted into "Signature Checking Disabled" mode. UAC is at it's most minimum setting. It cannot be fully disabled in Windows 10 without serious issues.
-I uninstalled the KFLOP driver in the Device manager by right-clicking Uninstall on the KFLOP-Motion Controller 4.xx icon. After accepting the warning dialog, it vanishes.
-I then deleted the ftd2xx.dll (for the heck of it) from the system32 folder.
-I uninstalled the KMotion 433q package in Control Panels, Programs & Features.
-I turned the KFLOP off and rebooted normally.

At this point my machine should be free of everything KFlop-related.

-I then rebooted into "Signature Checking Disabled" mode.
-I powered up the KFlop. There is no "New Hardware Found" dialog; nothing appears on screen. There is a "ding" sound, so it was found.
-After a moment, the "KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX" icon appears in the Universal Serial Bus Controllers section of the Device Manager. The icon is normal. There is *no* ftd2xx dll in the system32 folder. I ran my app, and it runs fine, controlling the KFlop normally. At this point I have NOT unstalled the KMotion 433q package.
-Now I install the KFlop 433q package (deselecting the Mach3 Plugin). It installs without error. I test ran the Dynomotion.net, KMotionCNC and KMotion apps without incident.

I'm guessing at this point that the similarity with the previous (before installing Windows 10 from scratch) incident is that the ftd driver is still failing to install into system32.

-So, I did a manual install of the KFLOP.inf file in the c:\KMotion433q by right-clicking the icon and selecting Install. A dialog appears saying that installation was successful. The ftd2xx.dll now appears in the System32 folder.
-I did a manual install of the KMotion.inf file in the same manner. A dialog appears saying that installation was successful.
-I again tested Dynomotion, KMotionCNC and my app. All continue to function normally.
-I powered down the KFlop.

I then rebooted normally.

-After login, I powered up the KFlop. The "KFlop - Motion Controller 4.xx" icon appears in the Device Manager, but now it has a yellow exclamation point triangle over the icon. The ftd2xx.dll is still present in the system32 folder. Attempting to run KMotion's Console/Version command returns "Can't Connect to KMotion Board #0".

I reboot back into "Signature Checking Disabled" mode.

-All KMotion apps and my app run normally.

I reboot normally.

-KMotion version returns "Can't Connect to KMotion Board #0".


Am I missing a possible installation step anywhere that could cause this issue?


sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com

Group: DynoMotion Message: 12505 From: Marrocco, Sam Date: 11/9/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?


On 11/9/2015 2:47 PM, TK tk@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 



So what I've been asking you to do is after booting without driver signing enforcement go to the Device manager, uninstall the driver, then Update the driver (using Device manager - right click - update driver)


Understood, but per those instructions when I uninstall the KFLOP driver (by Device Manager/right-clicking uninstall on the icon), the icon goes away. How can I *update* the driver by right-clicking on its icon if the icon is now gone? Or do I need to power cycle the KFlop for force the driver to reappear first?

I'm guessing that's what you meant. So....

-I booted into Driver Signing Enforcement OFF mode with the KFLOP on.
-I uninstalled the KFLOP driver. When asked, I checked "Delete the driver software for this device." The KFlop icon vanished from Device Manager.
-I then powered off and on the KFLOP. The icon reappeared in the Device Manager (under Other Devices).
-*Now* I can (and did) right-click on the KFLOP driver icon in Device Manager and selected "Update Driver Software" and navigated to the "C:\KMotion433q\USB Driver" folder. It found and installed the KFLOP driver into the "Universal Serial Bus Controllers" section of the Device Manager.
-At this point Dynomotion and my app run fine.

Reboot into normal mode.

-Same exact behavior: The Device Manager's KFlop icon now has an exclamation point through it and apps are unable to find the KFlop board.

If I boot back into Driver Signing Off mode the KFlop driver works fine. Reboot again normally and it does not.

sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12506 From: TK Date: 11/10/2015
Subject: Re: KFlop unsigned drivers inconsistent operation?
Hi Sam,

That's exactly what I had been asking you to do.   Sorry it didn't help.

The only thing I can think of is that it is loading the driver from some other place in Windows.  The driver file should be the ftdibus.sys file.

One user reported that he had a similar problem and loading the driver from FTDI solved the problem.  Although it isn't clear why as we have a different USB Product ID so the standard FTDI drivers should not work.  But the core driver file is the same so maybe that somehow helps.

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/D2XX.htm

We are looking into having our drivers signed.

Regards
TK




On 11/9/2015 1:05 PM, 'Marrocco, Sam' SMarrocco@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 



On 11/9/2015 2:47 PM, TK tk@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
 



So what I've been asking you to do is after booting without driver signing enforcement go to the Device manager, uninstall the driver, then Update the driver (using Device manager - right click - update driver)


Understood, but per those instructions when I uninstall the KFLOP driver (by Device Manager/right-clicking uninstall on the icon), the icon goes away. How can I *update* the driver by right-clicking on its icon if the icon is now gone? Or do I need to power cycle the KFlop for force the driver to reappear first?

I'm guessing that's what you meant. So....

-I booted into Driver Signing Enforcement OFF mode with the KFLOP on.
-I uninstalled the KFLOP driver. When asked, I checked "Delete the driver software for this device." The KFlop icon vanished from Device Manager.
-I then powered off and on the KFLOP. The icon reappeared in the Device Manager (under Other Devices).
-*Now* I can (and did) right-click on the KFLOP driver icon in Device Manager and selected "Update Driver Software" and navigated to the "C:\KMotion433q\USB Driver" folder. It found and installed the KFLOP driver into the "Universal Serial Bus Controllers" section of the Device Manager.
-At this point Dynomotion and my app run fine.

Reboot into normal mode.

-Same exact behavior: The Device Manager's KFlop icon now has an exclamation point through it and apps are unable to find the KFlop board.

If I boot back into Driver Signing Off mode the KFlop driver works fine. Reboot again normally and it does not.

sam marrocco | chief technical officer
ringside.cutters.flavor.picnic.moonlink

248 548 2500 w
248 910 3344 c

ringsidecreative.com